Ishmael Community Guestbook

there's, in my opinion, an interesting complex of realities co-mingling here on this "not a discussion board" --- here on the guestbook.

i think i'm beginning to understand, a little better, the balance that is being achieved here. plenty of us advertise our ideas here, and the ideas of others. plenty of people interact, to. and yes, i dare say, plenty of people discuss things. i don't think anyone who's been here more than once would need to confirm that, empirically, this IS a discussion board.

but of course it's SUPPOSED to be a guestbook, and probably the only way to keep it even FUNCTIONING, as a relatively "pure space" where you enter your name, rank, and serial number, say thanks, and sign off), is to make sure and ASSERT that it is a guestbook only.

argument and debate are not appropriate here.

which is what makes it a good thing i'm not debating or arguing anything. just observing.

and if i succeed, if you're reading this, then that means the moderator finds my ramblings as "appropriate" for inclusion as the signatures of others: if you're reading these words of observation proclamation, then you know i'm learning, at least a little bit, about the subtle art of tact.

i hope.

wow: did that even make any sense to anybody?

onward....

ten years ago i discovered Dan Quinn, which lead to Dave D., and then to....

....Tom Peters?

what the heck? isn't that, like, a business guy?

here's a quote, from the 80's:

"...traditional VERTICAL integration is fast being replaced: subcontracting of anything and everything is now becoming the norm."

very loosely, what he's saying is that the hierarchy is actually disappearing as a functional social organization --- even when the purpose of the social organization is to sell products and make money.

the quote is from a book-on-tape called Thriving on Chaos, which is not even close to being about anything remotely resembling environmentalism or conservation (let alone tribalism).

let me provide a bit of context. tom is basically talking about how to make more money. he's talking about how to be a better manager. he's talking about how to run, start, form, shape, mold, whathaveyou... a better BUSINESS.

and he's talking about it in an era when, as far as i know, running a big business and making a bunch of money was not yet considered anything like a shameful act. i might be stretching when i say that. but just from my gut, at that time in us history, i'm guessing it was still considered man's god-given duty to develop and use the earth's resources, and build better and better businesses for the job of making those important developments.

of course, now these notions are coming under question, partly in thanks to Daniel.

so no: tom peterson was not talking about "saving the earth." not even close. but in a subtle way, i believe that actually underscores my point.

all you have to do is squint and look at it, listen carefully, and what tom's talking about is things going tribal: he's just doing it without saying the word.

literally and figuratively, he states again and again, in several different ways, that something uncannily close to approaching the circus model quinn presents in Beyond Civilization is the IDEAL for business, and something toward which we should be striving. in his book, comparisons are often made between American businesses and those of the Japanese, with the explicit instruction to emulate the successful.

Remember how we're not looking to make gurus of tribal peoples but instead to emulate their success? Well, i hope that makes sense, to fellow long-time readers.

I remember being taught, back in school, that the Japanese beat us out of a big portion of the auto market because they have what basically amounts to a slightly more tribal organization for their businesses: we were told that their companies have a tendency to hire employees for life (cradle-to-the-grave security), and that their workers more so than ours --- for some mysterious reason --- have more of a tendency toward a team mentality (throwing in your lot with the group).

We were told that they'd stay late, work extra hard, take the success or failure of the company personally, bla bla bla.

And somehow, of course, this was all spun as a negative. Like those Japanese are just robots. Like they're idiots for working hard. Like, duh: of course the American model is better.

In school, of course, i was taught that civilization --- especially western civilization --- must be pursued to the utmost degree, and utterly and forever in the face of any evidence of the costs in terms of the quality of life to the people of which it is made.

Tom: a renowned inspirational business-management make-more-money leader/guru -guy, actually literally advises that we "flatten the pyramid."

And he said it before 1989.

I know i'm not the first to say that what Daniel has done has largely been to put words to --- and describe explicitly --- something we've been groping for for a long, long, looooooooooong time.

I recently read here on this site a quip of a fable in which Mr. Quinn compares himself to a crowbar: a tool to be used. Daniel's crowbar character says "I can be put to use in all sorts of ways, but how can I possibly know which of those ways will be helpful to you? Even you will find new ways to use me as time goes on. As for me, I'm easily satisfied. All I need is to be put into as many hands as possible. The more widely I'm used, the happier I am!"

Well, i genuinely hope this gets posted. I hope Mr. Quinn is happy his ideas are being used in this way, on this site, in these hands of mine.

I'll be back soon. But don't worry. Not that soon.

In due time.

:P

Faces of our ancestors Photos of attempts to accurately depict players in our story. How did things get to be this way?

I read Ishmael a few days ago and I've been having trouble sleeping because I want to finish all of the other books as soon as I can. This is one of the most life-altering experiences I've had in many years.
Thank you.
Anne Bentham

SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT IS AN OXYMORON

A sustainable activity/lifestyle is one that will be viable for the life of the planet, one that does not threaten biodiversity. Development is a natural process that every living organism undergoes which involves increased complexity and adaptability and requires no human intervention only celebration. Birth, initiation, confirmation, reproduction, responsibility, death and return to earth to become a part of another’s birth.

Some of the dictionary meanings of the word, “develop” are: To free from that which infolds or envelops; to unfold; to lay open by degrees or in detail; to make visible or known; to disclose; to produce or give forth; To unfold gradually, to bring through a succession of states or stages, each of which is a preparation for the next; to form or expand by a process of growth; to cause to change gradually from an embryo, or a lower state, to a higher state or form of being. To advance; to further; to prefect; to cause to increase; to promote the growth of. To go through a process of natural evolution or growth, by successive changes from a less perfect to a more perfect or more highly organized state; to advance from a simpler form of existence to one more complex either in structure or function.

Etymologists are divided on how the word came into the vocabulary. It is related to envelop which at first does not appear helpful. One suggestion sees “develop” having its root in the French, d['e]veloper (the suffix, d['e]- coming from the Latin: dis-) + Old French: voluper, voleper, to envelop also from the Latin: volup meaning: agreeably, delightfully, and hence originally to make agreeable or comfortable by embracing, hugging. This is related to Voluptuous from the French, voluptueux, from the Latin., voluptuosus, from, voluptas meaning: Full of delight or pleasure, especially that of the senses; ministering to sensuous or sensual gratification; exciting sensual desires; luxurious; sensual. Given to the enjoyments of luxury and pleasure; indulging to excess in sensual gratifications.

Following this train of thought the modern usage of the word, “Development” would sensibly mean “less pleasure”.

Another likelihood is that it comes from the Old French des volopper. Volopper, the root of the word translates as to unravel or to unfold. Its meaning becomes obvious when we look further back to its Latin origin: vellum; i.e., the coat on the back of a sheep. A tangled mass of wool is, in other words, the inspiration for a number of words in at least three languages. In Italian the word, vellum is the root for avviluppare and sviluppare, which mean to envelop and to develop. The French and the English words are very similar and etymologically we are correct in saying the word “develop” has to do with an act of finding what is already there by unraveling and opening up.

This interpretation presents a great challenge to those among us involved in community and economic development. It obliges us to reconsider our role from the position where we develop by researching and implementing projects, which we believe will benefit the community, to a position, which says that the focus of development is within the human heart, head and hands. The only thing we can possibly do to foster real development is to create an environment conducive to the transformation of good ideas into viable and sustainable ventures. A shift from proactive to responsive can only occur, however, if we are capable of believing that people are intrinsically good and that the diversity, variety and apparent randomness of their passions is like the superficially, chaotic, yet ecologically sound life manifestations that can be found in an old growth forest.

To use a metaphor, “develop” means “removing the husk”. The husk is an envelope that needs to crack open in order for the seed to germinate. To develop is more akin to gardening than creating from nothing. Certainly it is a more nurturing activity than a creative one. To develop implies a feminine, maternal, gardening activity aimed at creating the pre-conditions for germination and growth to occur. (Ernesto Sirolli)

Where the development model is tied to a concept of progress from backward, rural “primitive” to urban industrial “civilized,” sustainability is a snare and a delusion. If six billion humans are to have paved roads, pipe born water and electricity the planet is doomed. If the goal is to emulate the “standard of living” of the consumer culture it will only be achieved at the expense of quality of life: fresh air, fresh water, soil integrity, local, diverse, chemical free food, safe clean energy, leisure and time in nature.

“Sustainable development” is only possible with downward mobility, “the owning class joining with the working class to set the world to rights.” (Harvey Jakins) Downward mobility defined as, "The decline in the value of formerly status-laden items and simultaneous growth in the status value of just being satisfied. Self-affirmation will come by underspending incomes and exercising independence as consumers and workers, not by depending upon objects to establish worth”

THE STATUS QUO IS NOT SUSTAINABLE

"The most creative people are REALLY the most creative swipers."

-Tom Peters

http://competingvalues.com/

Hi

Thanks for allowing me to contribute to your website.

With regards to the use of renewable energy i.e. the sun. In the UK, if you have solar panels install at your home you can get money from the government every year. So you can be green and also make a profit from using solar panels.

Glad to be hear. Can't wait to see more of what this is all about.

I literally finished reading Ishmael 5 minutes ago. Upon putting it down a feeling of emptiness, similar to that of the narrator, consumed me. It feels as though Ishmael was my teacher and the books inspired thoughts in my own mind. Thank you for writing this book and for sharing it with the rest of us.

The Scissortail is a collective unschooling, art and library, bike DIY space located in the Paseo Arts District in OKC. Quinn is always on the recommended shelf. Come enjoy a non-commercial, free to B space here where global warming is still a myth and the earth remains flat. The New Tribal Revolution sobbing at the gravestone of the state here in Indian Country. Scissortail Social Space A small part of the New Tribal Revolution.

Gwache'

Danny Dolphin sends greetings to Ishmael from Asbury Park, New Jersey. http://www.mebc.net/DannyDolphin/

I'm really happy about the responses I got from my last entry. Really sorry to not have posted in a while, especially since I wanted to react to all the feedback I got.

I try to keep it short, but I would like to address Zot Lynn: of course the media is almost entirely composed of Mother Culture's voice and it seems like air to breathe or water for fish. But that's exactly the problem. How do you point out something that's so obvious and universal to everyone? If I tell my students some of the things Mother Culture says, they will probably not understand it, because they have a hard time seeing anything peculiar about it. Even if you raise someone's attention to his breathing, it will feel strange for a while, but it won't take long until it becomes something you don't think about again. I know of course, that this is a general "problem" when it comes to people processing 'Ishmael' and its ideas. But that's why I want examples that are not as easy to ignore as ads or romantic comedies.

But maybe my question was pointless. Once you start to grasp some of DQ's ideas it can be easy to point them out with anything you find. I probably shouldn't worry about this too much, there's enough to think about when you teach this to 25 German students. But, man, I really can't wait to start. I feel like I have already made so much progress with them (and others in a more subtle way), that it really should work well.

I notice about myself (especially now as I'm re-reading 'My Ishmael' again) how it becomes harder and harder to teach things I don't believe in. The problem of being a teacher in a public school is that it's impossible to avoid it completely and the workload and duties you have make it additionally hard to put a spin on all the things you teach. But then again, it is probably not necessary to do it all different at once. The students get confused anyway. But still, I refuse to spend a lot of time on things I don't believe in. Is that too obvious?

Does anyone else have thoughts on teaching 'Ishmael' vs. 'My Ishmael'? I'm not decided yet, because both have dis-/advantages but I want to make the right decision.

Thanks for all the input. I'll be back soon with some of my students' ideas on Europeans vs. Native Americans.

Gwagwagwe and the K.A.R.M.A. golden shower (P.P.)

Just to get this out of the way! You, who spend your moons staring at this majic box, get out and survive of pokeweed and dock like my pal archangel mark. He’s one of the many new muses that have surrounded GwaChe’ on his transition between the world you see and the world in which I will b. Amongst the others are Kim (Diosa Madre’), A. Scissortail, Red Christ, Maxine and May gun, and of course Mistress P. These current muses are joined by my beloveds of the past Anne L. (Roof Dancer) and P. the Vision Bearer. These strong autonomous people are giving me the therapy that all of us in transition need. We are making history so we may forget the past. We are living our vision (making pretty), relishing in the million one act plays we perform each day for the spectacle junkies (making whoopee), and of course completely ignoring the details of every day (making happy). Yes D.I.A.L. int. is alive and growing.

WWW slowed while I fight the battle of Left of John Brown’s Designer Jeans. This is the sixth of ten battles we will fight before the end date (10/10/10). The fifth was Con-Census 2010 and we pushed through with no wounded and much more courage (less fear). The SSS is still giving me sanctuary, and PPP is blooming like crazy. The DDD is being suppressed through daily sessions of meditation and prayer. The XXX is under control, and the KKK is hunting dead nazi’s on the moon. All is well from the mind of the MK Ultra maniac. I must stop treating people like test subjects, but sometimes they bore me to death.

Love you all GwaChe’ (formally Gwagwagwe. Echo. Cotton, U.P.W. and J.)

I just wanted to say that I am doing my best to reach a million people. I work at a book store and have made Ishmael my staff pick. I have sold more than 550 copies of Ishmael personally in the last 2 and a half years. It's not a million years, but I'm working on it.

Gwagwagwe and Think Tank 1999

After weeks of solidarity with my tribesman on the acceptance of state fear of dirty testing and the birth, the coincidences were becoming so great, the omens so humorous, and the signs so clear. I returned the Mikado and the goddess guiding the reality of the WWW. Our little vision is becoming a force of spirit and strength. A new revolutionary tribe of wobblie window washers is gaining momentum. The accounts are building, the checks are becoming numerous. We even received our first large check from an educational institution. Were finally taking back some of the scratch the took from us when were forced to pay them for brainwashing us or breaking our spirits in the ivory towers of the academic mafia. The crew is all scoundrels, scavengers, and saboteurs and each is taking their cash doing something they hope they will love to do for at least the duration of the next think tank (2015). Each gives according to their means, and each takes according to their needs. We are gaining trust in each other, protecting our own, trading with those in close federations, and most of all sobbing at the gravestone of the state (10/10/10). GwaChe’s Shed Deconstruction slowed progress while he wore the infamous felony hat. Yet his spirit is soaring on 600 ft ropes. The State (Caesar) is taking their chunks. We are taking them back in a variety of fun and challenging ways: please try at home! Hustling the state, hustling the academic mafia, hustling jesus, hustling agrideath, hustling charity, basically hustling everything in sight except our tribe. Don’t fuck with us. Caesar can’t control the seasons, and the goddess is gonna make him her bitch. As soon as I can tear down that shed and grow that mandrake. PPP is greening. Stevey was shot due to a Mother Mary’s OCD. He was a good rooster and I will relive his life for the young ones. A new fourlegged has arrived, Smiley is a wind chaser, and she is going to be a hard worker and a valued part of the aging crew. Frenchy is teaching her the ropes, and Spazy is teaching compassion. The little BC plant spirits are growing in the smoke of their mother, the ephedras are looking longingly at the medicine wheel. The alters and dendroporn are forming. The horehound and wonderberry are basking in a carribian sunset in the picture window of the shack. The pond is full and the duckweed is a mighty mass this year. Needless to say, it is ready for a fully functioning permaculture lifelong experiment for any willing squatters who can make their keep. Thank You Danial. Amongst all the dogma, rhetoric, and lies you found happiness and pretty. Without your providence many other’s would have been lost in that forest. You will always be praised in the storytelling campfires by those who cherish the telling. Goodbye Howard, that People’s History will be forgotten. We will drink the koolaid.

Until next time this is Gwagwagwe speaking as the mulberry time machine.

WWW, SSS, CCC, XXX, KKK, GGG, PPP, AAA, QQQ, TTT, DDD M^5. A bison scissortail federate. One of ten thousand. (10/10/10) the manic number. A small part of the new tribal revolution.

I definitely loved this book. I have a totally different view of the world now.